August 15, 2005

Cindy Sheehan

In her own words.

UPDATE: Enough with the name-calling in the comments section; I'll handle the immature behavior around here. If you have a view, state it clearly without attacking private citizens (Sheehan's placed herself in the public spotlight, so you can call her names—though I'd rather you didn't).

If you support her—why? If you feel she's dishonoring her son, how?


Posted by Attila at August 15, 2005 02:59 AM | TrackBack

I am a Vietnam war veteran and Cindy Sheehan is showing what is great about America. That's the right to call a liar and liar in public. Keep it up Cindy!

Posted by: Ron at August 17, 2005 05:31 PM

I am a Vietnam Veteran who was fortunate enough to live through another war based on lies. Cindy Sheehan is showing what is great about this Nation above most all others and that's the right
to call a LIAR a LIAR in public.
Keep up the good work Cindy.

Posted by: Ron at August 17, 2005 05:35 PM

Hey, Ron. I've got a few questions for you:

1) Do you feel, as Sheehan does, that American support for Israel is the origin of all the problems in the MIddle East?

2) How do you define a "neocon"? Given that this term is often used as a code for "Jew," does it trouble you at all that Sheehan throws it around as much as she does?

3) When you talk about "lies" with respect to the war in Iraq, I assume you're talking about the issue of WMDs in that country. Do you draw any kind of distinction between lying versus being misunformed by intelligence services? And how do you reconcile your charge of "lying" with the fact that plenty of prominent Democrats were also convinced during the 1990s/2000s that Saddam had WMDs--not to mention that this was the received wisdom in every country with any kind of an intelligence service at all?

4) What is it about the war in Vietnam that you felt was "based on lies"? And, BTW, where did you serve? Are you a soldier, a sailor, an airman, or a Marine? What unit were you in, and in where did you serve?

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 17, 2005 08:17 PM

Yes..Ron please stop talking about Vietnam. I am really sick to hear about it. You were not lied too. If you did less LSD you would know what reality is. Cindy son a true american hero and must be rolling in his grave regarding what his commie mom is saying. Remember dummy he reinlisted. Cindy you son did not come out of your womb go live in North Korea.

Posted by: kate Roy at August 18, 2005 10:19 AM

I doubt very much you will post this comment as I feel miss Cindy is a disgrace to herself and to her son. Yes I feel she has the right to speak her mind but now she is a puppet for the liberal media and she is smearing her sons service to her country. I have been serving my country for over 19 years and I would be ashamed if anyone in my family was as disrespectful to my service as she is to her sons.

Posted by: Bren at August 18, 2005 10:43 AM

Cindy is embarrassing herself and her family. I do also feel that she's being used by the media, who are thrilled to have something--anything--going on in Crawford that they can write about.

There is something profoundly unseemly about making a puppet out of your dead son and essentially putting words into his mouth. It's not healthy, and it's not respectful.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 18, 2005 01:08 PM

I feel this woman is disgracing her son's name. I am a Maine's wife who is still serving after 20 yrs. He has served and still serving our country with no quilt. He has been deployed several times in this ongoing carreer. I also have a daughter in the military and a son in law. I als0 work for the US Navy. We serve our country with pride. We know the risks. You might not agree with the war but sometimes people's grieve will blind the truth. I know at anytime my family will deploy and risk their life. War has been apart of this family but we will not blame the President. I believe this woman is liking the attention she is receiving from entertainers and tv. I do not believe her son would appreciated all this drama she is causing. I am embarrassed as a Mother and a wife of military personel. Her son volunteered have you forgotten. There are risks you take when you defend our country. Do you expect the President to speak to her ?I would not and I hope he does not give in to this woman. Entertainers are the most embarrassing of all. You have no clue when you are over paid and are not living in a low income life style which most enlisted people do. I believe this Mother likes all the attention; this is sad. My God give you peace so you can move on.

Posted by: Cindy Duty at August 18, 2005 02:15 PM

Thank you, Ma'am, for the sacrifices your family is making. My husband is a "former" Marine (four years).

I am embarrassed as a Mother and a wife of military personel.

Don't be. This woman is embarrassing herself and those who are encouraging her. No one else.

Her son volunteered have you forgotten. There are risks you take when you defend our country.

Yes. As many have remarked, I fear he may be rolling over in his grave right now.

Do you expect the President to speak to her ?I would not and I hope he does not give in to this woman.

He already spoke to her: no President owes any citizen unlimited time. It would set an awful precedent. I want him to concentrate on doing his (difficult) job.

Entertainers are the most embarrassing of all. You have no clue when you are over paid and are not living in a low income life style which most enlisted people do.

There is something especially disgusting about "limousine liberals" in LA/NY telling the rest of the country what to think. And it's hilarious that people who are famous for acting or singing imagine that we want to know what they think about politics.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 18, 2005 03:02 PM

How unfortunate that the Michael Moores, the Jane Fondas, and all the other anti- American commies who live in America, enjoying her bountiful benefits, have nothing but hatred in their heart for this great nation and everything she stands for. To stoop so low, as to use a fallen soldier's Mom, Cindy Shehan to vent their anger at losing the election is beyond belief!!!



Posted by: CG at August 18, 2005 06:51 PM

I also feel that Cindy is being used by the media to on go the war and used by the public eye on the war and its on going problems which many people think that is going on over seas. To Cindy, you and everybody else who seems to live there life with their eyes shut and their eyes closed you all are a disgrase to the entire USA. I can not stand illeagal imagrants and worse I can not stand worthless lives who walk around this land thinking that we should not be at war. Yes you are right we did not find WMD. But if you ever listen the troops of the American country you will know that Bush was given this problem droped in his lap by the privious president. Regardless of who the President is the problem was going to happen. Clinton had four known chances to wipe out Saddam and Bin Laden. We are fighting for peoples rights as well as fuel. Mr. Bush is trying to solve the problem by dwelling in the protected lands of the Americas known major resouses but our dumb economy citizens are agaisnt it becuse it will kill the animals. The house that they live in now was built on the animals homes and what about the land that they are on. We stole the land from our true pride humans, the Native Americans. Well thats another story. All of this crap started when Ronald Reagon gave the Iraq people used jets, jet fuel, tank, and many types of missels. Bush had no other choise, do you want this war served on our land on our homefront. Cindy your son reinlisted in the military because he only felt that it was his duty as well as other men and women who wants to serve their country. My brother started off in the USMC and now is serving in the War on Terror as a Crew Chief for the USAF out of Charlotte North Carolina. My brother and many of our Friends who are inlisted in the USMC, USAF, and the ARMY tells us about the on going SUCCESS that is going on over there. Do the math people, we are losing less soilders in this war than any other war. We are mainly losing soilders do to car bombs and other small problems. If you all think that war should not be going on, than why are Countries backing us in the War of Terror. If you all did not vote for Bush and you voted for the other guy. You would rather have somebody in office who wounded hisself and tried to get medals for his false claims. Well Cindy you do have the right to speak what you want but beware because Ted Nudgent lives down the street and he is always looking for new game to hunt. Happy Hunting Ted. Cindy your are a disgrace to your son and I hope when you see your son in Heaven he takes his M-60 and I will leave it at that. And this is nice, you do not want me to get mad. If somebody wants to attack me then go ahead. To Dr. Rice Thank You for being who you are and being a True American. But we have enough true Americans who want to fight for war without a draft. Fight for whats right and keep up the work. To all War Vets, Thank you for serving for our country, and to all family members who are with troops, please surport your love ones, they enrolled knowing what they have to do and they only want your blessings. Thank you. And for the people who know what the WALKING DEAD is, It's back and going strong and yes it is still in Japan. They are going to be the force on the War of Terror. Live Stong.

Posted by: michael at August 19, 2005 12:41 AM

I forgot to say that our people take an oath to do their duty as best as they can and many warmen (man meaning man and woman) hate to leave their Platton behind while they are home on leave or when they are on leave going through medical physical fitness to get back to war because they all feel that if they are not there they are letting their brother hood down. That is all for now. Thank you again to all people who serve and are with our troops in the War on Terror.

Posted by: michael sullins at August 19, 2005 12:55 AM

I would just like to say that I do believe that Cindy is wrong. I do think she is going against everything I have in me as a mother. First of all I would trust my childs decission to join the armed forces and stand behind our President as her son and the rest of her family did. Freedom isn't free.It has never been nor will it ever be.I thank the Lord everyday for my brother in law who is fighting day and night for Her right to stand on a street corner and and bad mouth The President and totally disrespect every man and women who has served in our armed forces trying to establish freedom wherever it may be. She should get on her knees and thank the lord for our freedoms we have. I will continure to pray for our President and our troops and for MRs Shehan. But I would like to leave her with this one thing. Freedom has never been free. The greatest sacrafice that was ever given was that God so loved the world that he gave his only son so that whoever beleives in him would not die but have life. This is what freedom is.

Posted by: Tina Sanford at August 19, 2005 06:56 AM

Cindy is totally right about her comments and the protest. Her timing on the other hand is terrible. More "good people" should have been outraged and protesting in the days leading up to the war. "Good people" assumed that the lies of this administration were better than the lies of Sadaam.
Blaming the intelligence community seems lame in my eyes. (The weapons inspectors were a form of intelligence right?)

Posted by: Lawrence A at August 19, 2005 09:00 AM

Yes. And the weapons inspectors said, "it beats the hell out of us. We're being shut out of a lot of areas, and we have 'minders' by us everywhere we go. This freakin' country is the size of Callifornia. We know jack."

I'm paraphrasing a little.

And there's also this: the legal justification for the war lay not in the probability that there were stockpiled WMDs, but rather in Saddam's lack of cooperation with inspectors. This is a guy who lost a war in 1992, and cut a deal that we would go away if he did certain things. He failed to do them, so we were legally justified in going in. (Technically, we had been at war with him all that time: there was never an official surrender.)

WMDs or no WMDs, he didn't fulfill the terms of the agreement, and he didn't cooperate with inspectors. (Not to mention 12 years of flouting the "no fly" zone we had in place to protect the Kurds.)

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 19, 2005 02:37 PM

To whom it concerns, the WMD were there and I do not know where they are now because in the early 90's he purchased them from an outsource country. I will however I will do my homework and find out who he bought them from. I work with a previous Histry Professor at work and he knows everything about each President and there good and bad things that they do. If people think that finding WMD in a Seira Desert the size of California you guys got to be kidding. If you guys think about it there have been several know facts (the military channel and the History channel) that during the gulf war many attacks were on the US ARMY and the Marines Tank devisions were attack by the Iraqan people by hidden bunkers and now the same people who were fighting agaisnt us are now fighting with us. Well thats all for now.

Posted by: michael sullins at August 19, 2005 04:35 PM

You folks are really defensive aren't you?
Yes we were lied to by Lyndon B. Johnson
over the bay of pigs incident and comparable reasons for escalating envolvement there.. If you knew
anything of the history there you would not
have shown your historical ignorance.
So get as sick as you want you still can't
hide nor distort the truth.
Now to Miss Attila's questions.
The alleged statements made by Sheehan
regarding Irasel . Yes it has a great deal to
do with the terrorist threats. Do I agree that we should not support Israel ?. NO I think we should . It's a scriptural thing with me.

I served during 68-69- Tet offensive better known as the deadliest time of the war.
You folk that are so supportive of this
have never served in combat and seen
what I have which BTW the way we fully believed we were giving ourselves up for a just cause . Some of us made it back and wanted to know the real reasons why we were wounded and why we saw our buddies blown to shreds and found out the truth.
I lived through that era and witnessed all
that happened and I wager none of you
that think Bush is telling you the truth did.
It's one thing to fight and die for a just
cause (Afghanistan and Bin Laden) and
another to fight and die for a LIE.
If you want to support liars who sacrefice
nothing and actually recieve personal
financial gain from this it is your right
to be as gullable as you want .
Birds of feather flock together and I will
not argue with the blind.
BTW take some Tagamints for that

Posted by: Ron at August 19, 2005 04:36 PM

Sorry I meant the "Gulf of Tonkin"
and not the bay of pigs.
Anyway a lie is a lie no matter how you
slice and dice it.
Adious lil' birdies.

Posted by: Ron at August 19, 2005 05:13 PM

I was wondering where Cuba fit into this thing. But, you know: it appears that all these conspiracies involve JFK in one way or another.

Ron: what unit? what branch of service? what was your rank? what did you specialize in?

And--again--what lie was told to get us into the Iraq War?


Posted by: Attila Girl at August 19, 2005 05:29 PM

First off I dont think Bushs plan for Iraq will work. Nor do I like the way he is mannaging the war effort. However between the new able danger information and the old evidence that the Oaklahoma fed building bombing was really a middle eastern plot. Clinton claims he was more concerned about Bin Laden but many people testified he was in our gunsights and Clinton was asked for permision to take him out and did nothing, (read Dereliction of duty) Bush clearly said "this is not about WMD it is about changing the face of the middle east". How more plain could one put it. Iraq was a convienant place to fight the war on terror. A secular nation with a ruler from a despot minority. Not likely for the local population to ralley against us. It became a place to draw foriegners to fight us so we did not have to invade Pakistan. Syria ect. They came to us on Turf outside and unfamiliar to both of us. What better could we hope for? Yes we could have more troops and heavier armor but allready we see then they dont engage us at all. (as they are cowards and they remote plant bombs and attack thier own civillians). Or worse would attack us here in the US. We want engagement we want to have firefights and kill off the Jihad. If we end up with a free western leaning Iraq thats a plus. Now do you expect any president to announce that as his true plan? The liberals went beserk when told terrorists were comming in to Iraq from its nieghbors and he said "bring em on!" Meanwhile the press corps Hellen Thomas asks him over and over again "why he wants to Bomb innocent Iraqi's? Its like the movie we cant handle the truth. Thats why we have a president. This is not a democracy it is a representative republic. His job is not to inform the country of the truth. That is the job of the media. His job is not to do what the people want. His job is to represent the majority of the people and to do what he feels is in thier overall best interests based on the knowledge that he has as president withen his given powers. Sometimes that requires lying or at least not answering questions forthrightly. WMD was a technicaly justifing argument that Iraq was not and did not intend to comply with its agreement that ended hostilities in 1991. That alone by and of itself legally allowed the president to re attack Iraq. He did not need to ask congress again and he did not need to ask the american people. He did both. The inteligence and any slanting does not matter. If North Korea Violates a provision of its cease fire Bush can attack them tomorow. Its easy to call someone a liar on hindsight when intellegence does not prove reliable.
Now on Shehan. Does anyone believe she wants a real personal meeting with the president. Its nothing but a political attack. Her sons death is nothing more than a excuse for the demand. You dont call a person a murderer who should be tried for war crimes and demand a explanation. She got a meeting once and she responded while she does not agree with him she accepts that he belives in his reasons genuinely. Now I have read that only God knows the heart of men. But aparently many people seem to have this inate gift. Most of them seem to be democrats and it seems the gift is severly limmited so they can only tell if a republican conservative is lying and no one else. Shehan has the right to say anything speaking for herself. She does not have the right to speak for a dead soldier in a way that is apparently opposite to everything he stood for in life. That it is Caseys own mother is the cheapest shot of all and that is not Grief and does not pass in my world for legitimate grief. A reasonable observation of the facts leads me to believe she is using her dead son for a personal political purpose. That is not freedom of speech that is moraly disgusting and repulsive. I reguard her as a political oppourtunist in the worst way. She said this is about the war and not Bush or politics She does not seem to grieve for her son at all but she raises all kinds of purely political issues like Isreal.
Now about the war on terror and Iraq. To me it is a Fact that it is an attack on western culture and we did in fact attack them first. These people were riding on camels and got rich on oil suddenly while living in the 17th century. Suddenly they see the kids watching Jerry Springer and listening to rap music with filthy lyrics. And our headlines of crime and perversion involving children and clergy. What do you think your parents would do if it was 1950 and suddenly all this sex crap came on the tv and the radio and your parents were told it was coming from Poland. And it was 1950 and they were told Gays had naked parades and were fornicating in public in polands largest citys. Do you not think American preachers would not stand up and preach denouncing that Poland is attacking our culture and our children and that they are degenerate infidels? They cannot stop the foriegn influx and influance of hollywood and liberalism and they live were a woman cant show her face much less flash her breasts. Just what do you think they think we are trying to do to them. The same thing we did do to Japan, korea, the Phillipines We westernised it. And in their eyes it is an attack on thier culture and I agree with them. Forget Iraq bomb hollywood!

Posted by: Fred Luxenberg at August 19, 2005 07:18 PM

Oh, don't do that. You might get my husband by mistake. Or maybe one of the four other conservatives who work there.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 19, 2005 11:06 PM

I totally suported the war in the biginning, but now that I have learned that there is NO WMD, and all the false information we got from the administration, I cannot in good conscience now support this false war. Like the priest at Crawford said the other day: "if Bush is right then Gandhi was wrong, if Bush is right then Martin Luther King was wrong, and if Bush is right, then Jesus Christ was wrong" and we all know that all these great leaders were not wrong. Bush is totally wrong in this and he is just stubborn to not admit it. Too bad his stubborness is causing more American deaths each day. The soldiers there in Iraq are not fighting a noble cause any longer because we all know that the soldiers were LIED to. There is nothing noble about fighting a war based on lies and falsehoods that we have no uncovered.

Posted by: "Ossie" at August 20, 2005 07:04 PM

So you supported the war in the beginning, but now you don't. How interesting.

Bush vs. Gandhi = Gandhi was not fighting jihadists; he was fighting the British Empire, which underneath it all had a conscience. The world of Muslim extremism is not like the British Empire so much as it is like a maximum security prison: projecting force is essential to attain any kind of respect.

Bush vs. Martin Luther King = same problem. MLK was using nonviolence against a society that was, overall, civilized. It was not planning on installing a new caliphate.

Bush vs. Jesus Christ = depends on which aspect of Jesus you're looking at. I believe Bush regards himself as the leader of a secular state. But JC was rather harsh on those money changers in the temple, no?

Once more: do you make any kind of distinction between lying vs. leaning on flawed intel?

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 21, 2005 01:55 AM

I think Miss Shehan is A Brave Woman and a great American
Her son may have volentered but did he volenter to die for a LIE
There is a differance Defending and dieing for your country against an imvasion or a REAL threat to our way of life.
And being sent to die for someones misguided crusade.
Good Job Cindy Keep It Up

Posted by: Jay at August 21, 2005 05:51 AM

I'm going to ask commenters to pick one screen name and stick with it. Don't make me start checking IPs, okay? Please practice screen name monogamy on my site.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 21, 2005 02:01 PM

Well, I won't comment on the person that said JIM CROW laws were some how passed by a CIVILIZED society. No wonder that person believes that Bush did not lie to the American people about the war...

Posted by: Ossie at August 21, 2005 11:00 PM

Is this another one of those arguments about how America is shit because it isn't perfect? There are a lot of moral stains on this country, and Jim Crow laws in the South were one of them. But Martin Luther King reached out to the vast majority of Americans, and there is an underlying morality that undergirded our nation, and made it possible (inevitable) that we would first (in cooperation with the English, and at great cost in lives and treasure) defeat slavery, and then destroy segregation.

The people we are fighting against wantonly kill innocents--with bombs, and via beheadings. How is that comparable to anything the U.S.(or its allies) has done?

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 21, 2005 11:13 PM

EXCUSE ME, did we not LYNCH African Americans for many many years? Did we not have SLAVERY LAWS? The raping of slaves by their MASTERS? How is this less reprehensible then ANY killer...both suicide killers and government assisted KKK groups that lynched and raped African Americans are morally reprehensible..that is OUR history that we can never ever forget...its sooo embarrasing and shameful..that we as a great country can never forget.

Posted by: Ossie at August 22, 2005 01:34 AM

"We"? I've never lynched anyone, nor raped anyone. I've never owned a slave.

Lynching was done outside the law, mostly by a covert association of criminals. I'd be interested in seeing how state governments or Federal governments "assisted" the KKK. Do you have any documentation for that?

Slavery was legal in this country until a century and a half ago, when it was abolished in the Western world. It still exists in the Middle East. It was a part of the Roman Empire, which considered my forebears, the British, to be particularly stupid people who made particularly dull-witted slaves.

I'm having trouble comparing blemishes on this country's history with actions that unnecessarily target civilians in this day and age. Any murder is bad, of course, but videotaped beheadings are barbarous, and seem to fit in with the goal jihadis have of turning the entire world's clock back to the MIddle Ages. How, exactly, would that advance the cause of civilization--to trade a legacy of century-old lynchings for present-day beheadings, along with the murder of women for the crime of having been raped?

I'm afraid I don't see that as an improvement at all.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 22, 2005 02:49 AM

I am so tired of people talking about MLK, he did nothing but stand up and talk about how wrong the African Americans were treated. There are sooo many more other well know leaders (Malcom X) that have also stood up for there rights as a human being. What about the African Leaders who sold there own kind to us (No Attila Girl not you, us meaning the United States). What about the people who stood up for women rights or what about the land that we stole from the real Americans. Christopher Columbus never discovered the US, it was already found and people were already living here. And to Fred about the prez lieing or not lieing but just not telling the truth to the people, I agree, if the United States know what realy goes on then they would not go on with their lifes. Its just like the town I live in. People think that it is so great because of the area being low in crime and drugs but they do not know what really happens when they go to sleep with my friends chasing bank robbers, stolen cars, drugs, and bad kids destroying the area school and public areas. Our friend who is in the USMC tells us about the many top ranking officials that they continue to capture while they were over there. He's been there before 9-11 and he will continue to do his duty of what he signed up for regardless if they are told the truth or not on why they are over there. He is doing his job and what is instrucked to him by his direct orders. And the same with my brother and all of our friends, they are trained to do there job and if needed and most of the time it is they do kill. One shot one kill! I suppurt the war regardless of what people say and the world will be a better place after we are done over there. Thank You to all who do use the freedom of speech regardless of what we agree on. Have a great day.

Posted by: michael sullins at August 25, 2005 04:48 AM

In todays military, nobody is force to join and if they think they joined just for a free education then they were idiots. Mrs Shehan''s son made his decision not only to join but to reenlist, so he must have had a better handle on what it was all about than his mother. For his mother to use his death to further her own personal beliefs denigrates his sacrifice and brings shame on a warriors death.

Posted by: BIG GEORGE at August 25, 2005 02:09 PM

OK look people, When you join the military(reservs or full) you have to know you can be called up and posibly die.Thats what the military does,they fight and they sometimes die.Nobody forced Cindy's son to enlist.She needs to stop and deal with her sons death,its not a National issue.
If you dont like it here leave.There are pleanty of countries out there that may take you.The United States of America is the best place to live and make your dreams come true.

Posted by: Dany Hart at August 25, 2005 08:04 PM

I can think of no greater disrespect to the memory of Cindy Sheehan's son than for his mother to completly discount his decision to serve and his commitment to what he believes in. I am retired from active duty and I chose that life. Casey Sheehan chose his life and I will honor his memory and his choices even if his mother wont.

Posted by: DCD at August 26, 2005 09:08 AM

First late me state I feel for all thoose who have lost in this war. With that said, I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS WOMEN! Her son, and many others who have joined the military of the U.S knew when they signed up that part of their duty was defend us in a time of war.

Posted by: myvoice111 at August 27, 2005 10:30 AM

what was cindy's position before her son died? volunteer is a key word in the contract.

Posted by: tpsen at August 27, 2005 04:22 PM

I am a Vietnam veteran. And I have lived through the personal agony of returning to a place I truly love after spending more than my due amount of time in the war zone. I love this country, and 2 years, 3 months, and 23 days in the Vietnam War proves it every day of my life. Cindy Sheehan has every right to voice her opinion, whether I agree, or whether anyone else agrees, is pointless. Anyone who marginalizes Cindy's rights to protest the Iraqi War is insensitive, crass, and mean-spirited; abridging Cindy's rights without questioning the government that has lied to us is wholly wrong; this hinges on sheer evil. Where do these insane people learn their history? Protest has ALWAYS been the hallmark of what this country stands for. Cindy Sheehan has every right in the world protest her son's death--she has more than earned that right many times over. Decent Americans should respect this right or they violate it in their complete ignorance of how this country really works and for what it stands. Any government that lies to the people is evil; it is the right and the duty of people to change that government which is doing the lying; read the Declaration of Independence, it's all there! Cindy is not only a good mother she is also doing her civic duty as a good American citizen. Keep up the great work Cindy! I'm totally behind you and wholly against this idiot of a president and his lying government. You upset these "right wing toadies" because they see the validity of your cause. It shakes their foundations and we owe much debt for your long-suffering admirable stand. God bless America!

Posted by: Jason P. at August 28, 2005 06:49 AM

I am a mother who knows what it felt like to have my daughter and my son-in-law serving in Iraq. The sacrifices that they and our families went through were the worst times I myself have ever experienced. I thought I would never see my daughter or son-in-law alive again. For any of our troops to die so far away from home and from their families is unbearable for me to imagine. I was fortunate to have them come home in one piece body & mind. If they had not I would be missing out on the joy of knowing my beautiful granddaaughter who means the world to me. Cindy will never know this kind of joy. My granddaughter will never know the love that her other grandma could of given her, for she was one of this wars causalties. After our childrens deployment had been amended twice her health suffered. She was lucky enough to see her son return home but soon after suffered a massive stroke. So I say to all of you who have said unkind words about Cindy; Who are you to judge? I applaud her and wish her the best. I wonder how many of you have buried a child who died in this war? Don't get me wrong, I support our troops 100 & 50%. But their voices have been silenced and we their mothers or fathers are their voices. May God all of you and especially Cindy and her family.

Posted by: Marylou Martinez at August 28, 2005 07:44 AM

Maybe if George W. Bush had some real wartime experience as a fighter pilot, instead of being AWOL from his Air National Guard unit, he'd know what is means to send mere gullible kids into battle for his 'elitist' commercial wars to free countries that don't want to be free. Cindy Sheehan stands for the truth and George W. Bush stands for more vancant lies about what this country is really doing. George of the Jungle is a sociopathic liar, Cindy Sheehan is an honest mother who had her son's life taken from her. She gets this very clearly and has a right to say it.

Posted by: Warren Spies at August 28, 2005 08:16 AM

Free Casey's Spirit... and God Bless America! God Bless Cindy Sheehan!

Impeach George W.Bush!
Impeach Condi Rice!
Impeach Donald Rumsfeld!
Impeach Paul Wolfowitz!
Draft Colin Luther Powell -- 1st Afro US President!

Posted by: William Buckdansor at August 28, 2005 08:49 AM

Great is your cause, Cindy. I lost my legs in another phoney war that has not resolved a problem: North Korea.

Have you noticed that our government has billions for forcing democracy on people who do not seem to be all that eager to fight for it - let alone share it. And, our government does not seem to have much for the poor and the needy here in America.

I have heard that the Business of America is Business. I also understand that people came to America seeking a better living through opportunity. Well, what comes first? People or Business. What happened to Abraham Lincoln's "government of the people - for the people - by the people?" How can business make it without people? Maybe people don't count. Corporate interests come first.

Posted by: Al Rosati at August 29, 2005 06:07 PM

Had George Bush gone to Vietnam and not bailed on his duties, he might have learned the lessons of that war. Iraq was and continues to be a mistake.

If my sons were in the military and were sent to Afganistan to hunt a true enemy, they would serve with pride. If they were sent to Iraq to fight a non-enemy for George Bush (to avenge the planned assasination attempt on Bush Sr. by Saddam) they would be in hiding Canada refusing to shed their blood to "free Iraq".

Posted by: kat at August 30, 2005 06:02 AM

No one has suggested that Cindy Sheehan doesn't have a right to say what she says. It's a free country, and everyone has a right to make an ass of himself/herself. This comment thread proves this pretty well.

Al, if it hadn't been for the Korean War, millions more would be trying to live on tree bark, and eventually starving. But you'd have your legs. Your priorities are interesting. I hope you lost your legs in the North; maybe someone was able to get some protein that day.

And then there is the inconvenient fact that Iraqis supposedly don't want democracy, and yet turned up to vote at great physical risk to themselves.

Kat, G.W. Bush volunteered to go to Vietnam. The particular kind of plane he was trained to fly was being phased out by then, so he never got to serve there. But perhaps you're suggesting that unless a Vietnam-era vet made his way into that country, any sacrifice they made doesn't count? Perhaps when my husband got shot on Okinawa, that doesn't count as a sacrifice? If G.W. Bush had been killed in flying the tetchy aircraft he specialized in piloting, he'd still be a draft dodger, huh?

Kat, you seem to imply that the war in Afghanistan was justified, but the war in Iraq is not. Yet St. Sheehan says they are both wrong, and maintains that the root cause of all our problems in the Middle East have to do with our relationship with Israel. Do you feel any need to distance yourself from that at all?

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 30, 2005 09:28 AM

With all (due?) respect, the site requests:

"If you have a view, state it clearly without attacking private citizens (Sheehan's placed herself in the public spotlight, so you can call her names—though I'd rather you didn't).

Calling Ms. Sheehan St. Sheehan is desrespectful. As is our right, she can voice her opinion in any way she sees fit. We all can choose to agree or disagree with her, but personal attacks only show one's willingness to attack a person's character rather than address the issues.

As for the problems in the Middle East, I feel they are too complex to blame on any one country or culture. There are many reasons for the ongoing unrest.

On Sept. 11, we were attacked on U.S. soil by an enemy who's leader was hiding in Afghanistan. We were justified in going after the leader of this army of barbarians to try to prevent them from attacking us again.

George Bush pulled our resources out of Afghanistan to go after Saddam Hussein because...? Based on lies and misinformation, he sold his agenda to the American public (not all of us were ever so stupid to believe his fairy tales about WMD) and bullied a paltry few other nations to join us.

So, no WMD, no threat to the US, and prior to us illegally attacking Iraq, no terrorist operations there. Where is the justification for the nearly 2000 lives lost?

I wholeheartedly support our military, but they are being sacrificed by a president so out of touch with reality it scares me. God Bless our soldiers - God help George Bush.

Posted by: kat at August 30, 2005 04:05 PM

George Bush pulled our resources out of Afghanistan to go after Saddam Hussein because...?

Because large numbers of troops were no longer required in Afghanistan, because Iraq was giving aid and shelter to terrorists, because they were (and had always been) in violation of the ceasefire agreement, because Saddam Hussein was a brutal murderous thug at the head of an entire regime of brutal murderous thugs, and because intelligence information was that he was stockpiling WMDs.

So, no WMD, no threat to the US, and prior to us illegally attacking Iraq, no terrorist operations there.

Wong! Terrorist bases, direct government relationships with terrorists, direct (and public) payments to terrorists, even links to Al Qaeda.

Where is the justification for the nearly 2000 lives lost?

What do you mean "justification"? Those deaths weren't justified; our soldiers were killed by the enemy. Our soldiers who had freed 25 million people from tyranny were killed by those who would become the new oppressors.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at August 30, 2005 08:21 PM

With all (due?) respect, the site requests:

"If you have a view, state it clearly without attacking private citizens (Sheehan's placed herself in the public spotlight, so you can call her names—though I'd rather you didn't).

Calling Ms. Sheehan St. Sheehan is desrespectful. As is our right, she can voice her opinion in any way she sees fit. We all can choose to agree or disagree with her, but personal attacks only show one's willingness to attack a person's character rather than address the issues.

Except that my designating her as "St. Sheehan" was not meant to denigrate her, but rather those who would "beatify" her by elevating her voice in importance in order to drown out arguments in favor of the war.

This is supposed to be a democracy. The military is supposed to be under civilian rather than military control; that rule is built into our system of government. And I didn't hear anyone claim during the Clinton Administration that the decisions about when to take military action should be made by the armed forces themselves--or by the families of those who had made the ultimate sacrifice of their lives. (Especially by family members who disagreed with their sons'/daughters' decisions to sign up! Good Lord!)

As for the problems in the Middle East, I feel they are too complex to blame on any one country or culture. There are many reasons for the ongoing unrest.

Not to Cindy Sheehan. To her, it's our support for Israel that is the root cause of anti-American sentiment in the ME. Why is this woman being listened to despite her lack of analytical ability and her unsavory associations with anti-Semites?

On Sept. 11, we were attacked on U.S. soil by an enemy who's leader was hiding in Afghanistan. We were justified in going after the leader of this army of barbarians to try to prevent them from attacking us again.

Not according to Mrs. Sheehan. She's against both fronts in the War on Terror. Does she speak for you?

George Bush pulled our resources out of Afghanistan

Which resources? What would you have us do in Afghanistan that isn't being handled there by us or by the U.N.? Please be specific. (And don't say "find bin Ladin," because obviously that's like demanding that we find a needle in a haystack before we take any other constructive action.)

to go after Saddam Hussein because...? Based on lies and misinformation, he sold his agenda to the American public (not all of us were ever so stupid to believe his fairy tales about WMD) and bullied a paltry few other nations to join us.

Dreadful. Sounds perfectly awful. Bad President!

So, no WMD, no threat to the US, and prior to us illegally attacking Iraq, no terrorist operations there. Where is the justification for the nearly 2000 lives lost?

1) The WMD existed; they had been used in the first Gulf War. It was the opinion of every nation with any kind of intelligence service at all (including France) that Saddam still had the WMDs. It was the opinion of leading Democrats (including John Kerry and the Clintons) that he still had 'em.

2) Nothing illegal in our attacking Iraq. A legal state of war still existed between the U.S. and Iraq--dating back to the first Gulf War--and Saddam failed to comply with the terms that caused the bullets to (almost) stop. So we went back in; to allow him to continue to flout the terms of the agreement would have been encouraging others like bin Ladin to see the U.S. as "weak," and would have swelled the terrorists' ranks. (Remember: one of the main arguments bin Ladin used to buttress the notion that the U.S. could not be taken seriously was our retreat from Mogadishu after the Black Hawk Down incident.)

3) "No terrorist operations there"? What the hell? What about:

A) Salmon Pak

B) Saddam's harboring of Abu Abbas, a terrorist who had killed an American?

C) the continuing connections between Saddam and A.Q.?

I wholeheartedly support our military, but they are being sacrificed by a president so out of touch with reality it scares me. God Bless our soldiers - God help George Bush.

You forgot to say the whole thing: "God bless our soldiers--those stupid, hapless dupes who are being sold a bill of goods by G.W. Bush/Karl Rove."

I'm sorry: you cannot claim to support the troops, and simultaneously undermine a mission they are engaged in.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 30, 2005 08:44 PM

You forgot to say the whole thing: "God bless our soldiers--those stupid, hapless dupes who are being sold a bill of goods by G.W. Bush/Karl Rove."

Your words, not mine. I'm sure there are many, many soldiers who don't support the cause. They are doing the job they enlisted to do because they are loyal and dedicated professionals. Many, like myself, feel it's the responsibility of Iraqis, not Americans, to "free Iraq". Let them fight for their own independence, as we did many years ago.

And for those of us who want our troops home, I hope to see you at the peace rally in Washington on September 24!

Posted by: kat at August 31, 2005 06:48 AM

Kat, you can't be serious when you assert that American Colonists fought the War for Independence without help. That whole conflict turned into a World War, and was ultimately part of a larger conflict between Britain and France.

The French financed/assisted with our revolution, and we basically bankrupted them. In fact, our successful revolution may have been a contributing factor in their unsuccessful one.

And Iraqis are signing up in droves to defend their new country. There are a lot of actions now wherein the Iraqis are fighting the insurgents while their American advisors simply look on and encourage them. We're training wheels--nothing more.

If you don't try to force our boys and girls home early through political means, this will be a successful project. The news media are giving you a distorted view of what it's like over there.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 31, 2005 07:07 AM


My husband was 18 yrs. old when he joined the Marines and went to Viet Nam, no one forced him, he , as I am sure your son understood , that when you join the military forces of ANY COUNTRY, sometime, you will have to go into combat and that you might die. THIS IS STILL THE BEST COUNTRY ON EARTH...IT YOU DONT BELIEVE ME TRAVEL GO TO SOUTH AMERICA, GO TO THE MIDDLE EAST, GO TO AFRICA AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. MAY THE CREATOR ENLIGHTEN YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND GIVE YOU PEACE!!

Posted by: Margarita at September 1, 2005 08:25 AM

This is kind of like watching a volley ball tournament. It is interesting to see who will say what next.

It also amazes me how the anti-war people are so forceful with their complete historical ignorance - lack of historical knowledge that is, not stupidity - as if they "know" that what they say is fact.

Attila Girl - I like the way you base your standings on real events along with historical references and dates as opposed to others who base their oppositions on the same old "talking points." Nothing fresh ever comes out of their mouths - nor do any ideas that may counter the current situation as a plausible alternative.

It is easy to complain about things that look bad - it takes real intelligence to look past the surface and understand what the potential outcome could mean for this country. Don't just oppose - how about some alternatives - because like it or not, this is the hand of cards we have. Since you CANNOT trade them in for new ones - stop bitching about the ones you have, and make the best of them while always, always, always keeping the goal of WINNING - whether you agree or disagree with our ORIGINAL reasons for being there.

Posted by: Ant at September 1, 2005 08:32 AM

It's worth remembering that although the Vietnam war was mismanaged from the beginning, we were still winning it. The North Vietnamese realized, however, that if they just waited a bit longer, the anti-war forces HERE IN THIS COUNTRY would win the war for them.

And that's exactly what happened.

It was mismanaged, but it was a valiant attempt to save lives. To this day, Americans are treated very well when they go to Vietnam--because we are remembered as the people who tried to save their country from communism.

Posted by: Attila Girl at September 1, 2005 09:45 AM

Share photos on twitter with Twitpic "Let the issues be the issue.

About Joy W. McCann: I've been interviewed for Le Monde and mentioned on Fox News. I once did a segment for CNN on "Women and Guns," and this blog is periodically featured on the New York Times' blog list. My writing here has been quoted in California Lawyer. I've appeared on The Glenn and Helen Show. Oh—and Tammy Bruce once bought me breakfast.
My writing has appeared in
The Noise, Handguns, Sports Afield, The American Spectator, and (it's a long story) L.A. Parent. This is my main blog, though I'm also an alumnus of Dean's World, and I help out on the weekends at Right Wing News.
My political philosophy is quite simple: I'm a classical liberal. In our Orwellian times, that makes me a conservative, though one of a decidedly libertarian bent.

8843.jpg An American Carol rawks!
Main AAC site (Warning: sound-enabled;
trailer starts automatically.)

Buy Blogads from the
Network here.

This is one of the last pix
we took before we left
the house in La Caada.
I think it's very flattering
to Bathsheba the .357.

"The women of this country learned long ago,
those without swords can still die upon them.
I fear neither death nor pain." —Eowyn, Tolkien's
Lord of the Rings

KhawHeadShot.jpg Free Abdulkarim al-Khaiwani!
See Jane Novak's "Yemeni Watch" blog,
Armies of Liberation.
Free journalists and dissident bloggers, worldwide!

Some of My Homegirls— ERROR: is currently inaccessible

My Wish List

• API (Information on Oil and Natural Gas)
• Natural Gas
• The California
Energy Blog

• The Alternative Energy Blog
(Solar, Wind, Geothermal, etc.)
• The Energy Revolution Blog
• Gas 2.0 Blog
• Popular Mechanics'
"Drive Green"

• Libertas
(now on hiatus, but they'll be back!) • Pajiba

Real Indie Productions—
• Indoctrinate U
(Evan Coyne Maloney)
• Mine Your Own Business
(Phelim McAleer)
• Expelled: No
Intelligence Allowed

(Ben Stein, Logan Craft,
Walt Ruloff, and John

Real Indie Production
and Distibution

• Moving Picture Institute


• First Installment: The Basic Story
• Hymers' History of Violence

• How Fun Is It To
Be Recruited Into Hymer's
Offbeat Church? Not Very.
• How I Lost My Virginity


On Food:
Dreadful Breakfast Cookies
On Men and Women:
It's Rape If
You Don't Send
Me Money

Women Talk Too Much;
I'll Date Dolphins

Men Are Kinky

Hot Cars,
Hot Girls

On Animation:
—the Commentary

On Religion:
Athiests and
Christians Talking
To Each Other

"Good grammar, and better gin."
—CalTech Girl
"I enjoy Little Miss Attila's essays."
—Venomous Kate
"Joy is good at catching flies with honey."
—Beth C
"Your position is ludicrous, and worthy of ridicule."
—Ace of Spades
—Suburban Blight


Teh Funny—
• Dave Burge
Interesting News Items

Civics Lessons—
Taranto on How a Bill Becomes Law

Editorial Resources—
• Better Editor
• Web on the Web
• Me me me me me! (miss.attila --AT-- gmail --dot-- com)
Cigar Jack

David Linden/
The Accidental Mind

Cognitive Daily

Rive Gauche—
Hip Nerd's Blog
K's Quest
Mr. Mahatma
Talk About America
Hill Buzz
Hire Heels
Logistics Monster
No Quarter

Food & Booze—
Just One Plate (L.A.)
Food Goat
A Full Belly
Salt Shaker
Serious Eats

Things You Should Do
(In the West)

Just One Plate (L.A.)

• Jalopnik
The Truth About Cars

SoCal News—
Foothill Cities

Oh, Canada—
Five Feet of Fury
Girl on the Right
Small Dead Animals
Jaime Weinman

Mary McCann,
The Bone Mama

(formerly in Phoenix, AZ;
now in Seattle, WA;
eclectic music)

Mike Church,
King Dude

(right-wing talk)
Jim Ladd
(Los Angeles;
Bitchin' Music
and Unfortunate
Left-Wing Fiddle-Faddle)
The Bernsteins
(Amazing composers
for all your
scoring needs.
Heh. I said,
"scoring needs.")

Iran, from an Islamic Point of View
and written in beautiful English—

Blogging Away Debt
Debt Kid
Debtors Anonymous
World Services

The Tightwad Gazette

Gentleman Pornographer

More o' Dat
Pop Culture—

Danny Barer
(Animation News) • Something Old,
Nothing New

(And yet more
Animation News)
Sam Plenty
(Cool New
Animation Site!)
The Bernsteins
(Wait. Did I mention
the Bernsteins
already? They're

Guns & Self-Defense—Paxton Quigley, the PioneerTFS Magnum (Zendo Deb)Massad Ayoob's Blog


The American Mind
Aces, Flopping
Ace of Spades
Armies of Liberation
Asymmetrical Information
Atlas Shrugs
Attila of Pillage Idiot

Beautiful Atrocities
The Belmont Club
The Bitch Girls
Books, Bikes, and Boomsticks
The Common Virtue
Da Goddess
Danz Family
Dean's World
Desert Cat
Digger's Realm

Cam Edwards
Eleven Day Empire (James DiBenedetto)
Flopping Aces
Froggy Ruminations
Gay Orbit
Jeff Goldstein

Mary Katherine Ham
At the D.C. Examiner
Hugh Hewitt
Hi. I'm Black.
Iberian Notes
The Irish Lass
In DC Journal
Infinite Monkeys
Intel Dump

Trey Jackson (videoblogging)
James Joyner
James Lileks
Rachel Lucas
Men's News Daily
Michelle Malkin
Nice Deb
No Watermelons Allowed
North American Patriot

On Tap
On the Fritz
On the Third Hand
Outside the Beltway

Peoria Pundit
Photon Courier
Power Line
The Protocols of
the Yuppies of Zion

Protein Wisdom

The Queen of All Evil
Questions and Observations
Right Wing News

Donald Sensing
Rusty Shackleford
The Shape of Days

Sharp as a Marble
Sheila A-Stray
Laurence Simon

Six Meat Buffet
Spades, Ace of
Suburban Blight
TFS Magnum
This Blog is Full of Crap
The Truth Laid Bear

Venomous Kate
The Volokh Conspiracy

Where is Raed?
Write Enough
You Big Mouth, You!


Support our troops; read the Milblogs!

Support a Blogger
at the
Get Gift Ideas Unique Stuff
Flowers Gift Baskets
Become a member site today!