To get a bit liberal with you, I would say that it is fear growing into hatred of female sexuality. I don't fuly agree with the feminist claim that "rape isn't about sex" it's about violence, but in the most severe Islamic societies (and they vary) isolation from women and other factors drives a porno, slave vision. A lot of male ugliness comes from the homoerotic images of young male bonding and while in the west this evolves, in countries with little real contact the formative image of women as things to be owned and used magnifies in male groups. And since all emotional contact is same sex the female is truly "other."

A lot of feminist cliches do apply here. They've been less accurate in the west because other moderating factors occur, but hin some Islamic countries you see a society in a "purer" form.

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant segregation in special circumstances, such as some schooling and worship.

I do agree that the kind of total lack of contact that exists in some Islamic countries fosters a sense that women are alien.

I'm not sure what you are apologizing for. I was responding to the statement that certain extreme Muslims see women as sexual, but in fact they don't see that sexuality and do fear and hate it.

It is a male created sexuality in which guys get together to decide what is attractive and desirible.

I have no strong feelings on sexual sgregation as part of a process of frowing up or an adult option. Igf men want to go pound drums in the woods that's fine. I do know that many women's only colleges can't get recruits. I also know that many "women's only" spaces do not seem to produce particularly strong women who are more capable of acting in the greater society. I do believe that many once male dominatd and still heavily male defined realms like hunting and police work have (oftyen reluctantly) opened themselves to women and if women can accept much of the basic ethos they are widely accepted and add much to it.

I do know that if one says to a "feminist" grouping that perhaps the process involves not "women only" but "women defined" environments the attacks can be severe. Yet in more mainstream grouoings be it helping clean up dishes after thanksgiving or goin into nursing these "spaces" are more open.

I do think that a shifting and extension of roles into the domain of the "other" is part of the evolution of society.

In severe Islamic societies the only way to acquire an emotional intimacy and equality with women is for a male to become a eunuch. One is either or and for the male to cross into the other space requires the surrender of "manhood." There are lots of remaints of that within our culture, but it is also quite possible for a man to add "female" styles of communication and interests to his behavior and even oil and pamper a woman and still retain "traditional" strengths and interests.

It was never about "brand" loyalty. Just the Euros getting a head start on that redistribution of wealth/income thing...

Covering your head as a sign of respect/humility during a Mass is hardly analogous, is it?

Maybe we can stop those "honor killing," "honor rapes" things while we're at it. That would be a start...