"The notion of a universality of human experience is a confidence trick and the notion of a universality of female experience is a clever confidence trick." - Angela Carter

"Mother goddesses are just as silly a notion as father gods. If a revival of the myths of these cults gives woman emotional satisfaction, it does so at the price of obscuring the real conditions of life. This is why they were invented in the first place." - also Angela Carter

I didn't think it was possible, but Patterico has been having a very civil and extended discussion of abortion.

it gives me hope, even though people don't see eye to eye, the 'noise' is minimal!

PS Let me know when you're ready to enjoy a pitcher of margaritas! Take that DC taste of what passes for east coast "mexican" food outta your mouth.

1) Wow. I'll have to head over there to P's Pontifications.

2) Couple of weeks would be great. Just have to catch up with a few things around the house, and take care of a few clients. Something like first weekend in March . . .?

AG

COOL! Couple of weeks will be very nice.

Now, please beat me about the head and shoulders for trying to have a civil discussion with 'extreme' feminists about The Vagina Monologues.

I just got told (because I don't fall down and worship the play as ART) that I'm anti-female-sexuality and I let men own my vagina.

I keep thinking that sweet reason can be a place even those will disagree can meet.

Argh.

Actually, I've never seen it, but I've heard a few quotes. I've always figured it was an excuse to get the word "vagina" into the media, because if that happens we will have officially Achieved Freedom. I'm afraid is sounds like pap, though I guess I ought to see it once.

But, really: what an unsexy word, "vagina." And to pretend that a mere canal is the "ringleader" in female sexuality isn't very smart. The vagina more or less goes with what the frontline decision-makers want . . . the brain, clit and vulva are really in charge, IMHO>

Very nice post, AtillaGirl.

"A walking vagina with arms and legs attached to it" -- isn't that what we, as women, were supposed to want to get away from?

Argh.

AG

I haven't see VM, but I've read the play. I can't bring myself to suffer 90 minutes of really bad, trite writing know matter how "empowering" it's supposed to be.

The author, Eve Ensler, has written a new play based on conversations with her stomach.

Cathy

If you see yourself as a "whole" woman, and you don't embrace and become your vagina..you are letting men own it. You are stifling your sexuality.

It's really weird. Extreme feminists have now offered themselves up as the answer to a 15 y/o boy's wetdream.

Somehow, I've never been tempted to over-identify with my genitals. My fetching cerebral cortex might be a different matter, of course.

I have had some discussions with radical feminists, and during one discussion, I mentioned that having sex with someone you're not married to, and as a matter of fact might not even love, allows her to be used by the man. She replied: "Well, I'm using him too".

So the new breed of radical feminists has institutionalized what I had always thought feminism was opposed to... the objectivation of women.

It's okay as long as bothsexes are brought down to the lowest common denominator.

Every time I try to talk to a "real" feminist about the Vagina Monologues, I'm told that I'm just repressed. Or a spouter of right-wing propaganda. I can't stand the fact that on my campus, and on campuses around the country, this play is the pinnacle of liberated womanhood. Strange, I always thought that feminists took issue with the objectification and oversexualization of women. Silly me.