February 26, 2006

Bad Lefties. No Civil War for You. At Least, Not Yet.

Though the woods are lovely—dark and deep.

Posted by Attila Girl at February 26, 2006 12:00 PM | TrackBack
Comments

Just wanted to see where you stand on port-gate. Let me guess you are with the president no matter what he does. As always!
See if you have the ability to surprise me, Joy.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at February 26, 2006 02:03 PM


So, Mr. Hussain, what is the correct position on the port issue?

So far as I know, a significant number of the ports or the USA are operated by foreign companies, including Chinese and Malaysian. Does adding another 6 make that much of a difference?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at February 26, 2006 02:57 PM


Amazing, Azmat, how all the Left Cult members have actually welcomed any bad news in Iraq, pooh-poohed/dismissed good news in Iraq, sneered at Iraqi voting, welcomed dead Americans in Iraq and yammered loud and long that there is "no such thing" as Islamist terror.

And suddenly they think the guy they believe has made up the 'War on Terrah' in a ZionistXtianHalliburtonNeoCon conspiracy is selling out to the same terrorists they think never existed in the first place?

I think the true line is that some are against the President, no matter what he does.

Posted by: Darleen at February 26, 2006 02:58 PM


Nice little trap, Azmat: I'll bet if I were against the port deal I'd be a racist. But since I'm leaning toward it, I'm blinded by my loyalty to Bush.

I'd just like the matter to be decided without prejudice based on the ethnicity of those involved. Because, you know: I try to be rational.

Posted by: Attila Girl at February 26, 2006 04:40 PM


Well my position is simple, its a diversion tactic by Karl, it will go through after 2006. And ofcourse in favor of Mr. Bush. In the meantime, some other republicans get to use the homeland security issue to win another election. And no Attila I would never accuse you of being a racist, you let me post here.
Without knowing my true colors:) For all you know I might be that brown color, (tan) so many people admire and want in this country.
Oh and Ms. Darleen what a beautiful name, I welcome all good news from Iraq, especially involving troop withdrawls. I don't want dead Americans and that is why I support Mr. Rumsfeld, who wants to reduce the number of troops. And I have never been against the President, I just believe that there is a communication gap between cultures, which cannot be bridged by slogans like "we are danes"

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at February 26, 2006 08:50 PM


"Well my position is simple, its a diversion tactic by Karl, it will go through after 2006. And ofcourse in favor of Mr. Bush. In the meantime, some other republicans get to use the homeland security issue to win another election."

A majority of the American people are against the deal. They're blaming Bush, and by extension, the Republican Party for it. The Democrats are using this to their advantage and getting good poll numbers out of it. How will the Republicans get a win out of this?


"And no Attila I would never accuse you of being a racist, you let me post here.
Without knowing my true colors:) For all you know I might be that brown color, (tan) so many people admire and want in this country."

Which country are you from, again?


"And I have never been against the President, I just believe that there is a communication gap between cultures"

Which cultures are you refering to?


"which cannot be bridged by slogans like "we are danes""

Is "Allah akbar!" one of those slogans as well?


Posted by: Daniel at February 26, 2006 09:32 PM


Color is so arbitrary. I don't mean that in a sloganey way: I just mean that I am very pale, and my brother is very brown because he got some of the stray DNA from our whisper-thin American Indian ancestry. We look like we're different ethnic stocks entirely, but we both clearly have markings from both our parents.

These physical traits are just a crap-shoot.

Posted by: Attila Girl at February 26, 2006 10:30 PM


Daniel,
A majority of Americans are against the deal, that is why some of the republicans are going to look good standing up to the president for those people. Also they will look good by joining a bipartisan approach to homeland security. The president does not have to worry about re-election, so he can look bad for a while and take one for the team. Karl is a genius, note he didn't even get caught but some other loser did.
I am from many countries, lets see, my ancestors came from Arabia, my parents came from India, I was born in UK, I have been a Pakistani, a Canadian, a Brit, and now perhaps a US citizen. I have a choice of living and working in many places in the world, so these arbitrary boundary lines do not mean much to me. Which country are you from again? is a narrow minded provincial statement. Really we are all from the same planet Earth.
And Daniel, I really do not want to be the one to bother you with this idea, that on this planet we have many cultures, including the male culture and a female culture. And those different cultures have trouble communicating with each other.
Allah -u-Akbar, last I checked translated into God is great. By the way my name "Azmat" also means great!
Now apperently, that particular atribute of God is a bee n yo bonnet, so perhaps you should ask your self what that is all about. Do you not believe that God is great? Or at least Good?
Daniel "from the hebrew meaning "God is my judge" I like that slogan as well. I hope you use that often, cause really noone should judge you except God.
Cheers

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at February 26, 2006 11:43 PM


Azmat, I believe one of the reasons "Allah Akbar" makes Anglo-Americans tense is because sometimes when we hear it, it's on videos of people getting their heads sawn off while this slogan is shouted (apropos of nothing, I imagine). So there's this little negative association going on.

Posted by: Attila Girl at February 26, 2006 11:53 PM


Now apperently, that particular atribute of God is a bee n yo bonnet, so perhaps you should ask your self what that is all about. Do you not believe that God is great? Or at least Good?

Which G*d would that be? the one that calls for the blood of the infidel, the Jew and the apostate? or the one that said love G*d with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself?

I'm having severe difficulty accepthing that both visions are of the same G*d.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at February 27, 2006 05:14 AM


Well, wait: we can challenge mainstream Muslims when we don't feel they are being vocal enough in distinguishing themselves from the Islamofascists, but we shouldn't go so far as to conflate them with the murderous fringies who murder in the name of the Almighty.

In fact, despite the fringies' recents persecutions of Christians and Jews, traditional Islam worships the same G-d as the other two main monotheistic faiths do, and in fact recognizes them in a special way, as fellow "people of the book."

So bear in mind that when you're talking to a mainstream Muslim, he/she has the same G-d you do. So as a Christian, I do indeed worship Allah.

This does not stop me from criticizing the evil done in His name. In fact, it gives me a special obligation to do so. But He is the same Deity Azmat recognizes.

My point in the comment above was only to point out how some Westerners came to associate His Name, in Arabic, with violent, tortuous murder. And that this is not a little problem.

Posted by: Attila Girl at February 27, 2006 02:15 PM


Sorry for the delayed response.

So, let me get this straight. You're saying that Rove and Bush got together (perhaps at some modern-day Wolfshanze) and concocted a scheme whereby Bush would come up with a deal *so ludicrous* that his fellow GOP'ers would rally against said deal (and Bush), thus paving the way for another Repub victory in '06?

Do you think that maybe despite Repub opposition, the American people will still associate Repub office candidates with Bush and the ports deal and give the nod to the Democrats? Or does Rove have *that* much power to influence.

I am from many countries.....
Oh boy. You're from everywhere but you're from nowhere, borders don't count, etc etc. Ah, but then again these borders count -
"...and now perhaps a US citizen
Just what we need - another immigrant here bashing the US. It's so terrible in the US yet you just have to live here.

And Daniel, I really do not want to be the one to bother you with this idea, that on this planet we have many cultures, including the male culture and a female culture. And those different cultures have trouble communicating with each other.

It's OK. There's no bother. I'm not sure what you're talking about with your male/female culture bit. However if I were you, I wouldn't go talking about it at Harvard - they might boot you off the campus.

Anyway, are you saying that this "communication gap" explains the beheadings, the suicide bombers, the planes flown into buildings, etc?

Daniel "from the hebrew meaning "God is my judge" I like that slogan as well. I hope you use that often, cause really noone should judge you except God.

I admire your ethno-linguistic abilities. While I have some snarky comments about that sentence of yours, in the interests of civility I'll hold off and sign off - for now.


Posted by: Daniel at February 28, 2006 05:51 PM


I enjoyed you response Daniel.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 1, 2006 05:58 PM


Hello Daniel,
1. I think you got it straight.
2. The Repub candidates will appear to be standing up to the president, and uniting the country.
3. These borders count (haha) to you who have no where else to go. Not to me I move freely, and am able to pick and choose where my contribution is most needed.
4 Who says I was bashing US? My analysis does not Ever involve bashing US or the people living in it. The reason, I am here is so that I can contribute to people like you. And maybe convince you that your attitudes are not helping.
5. I don't know if you are aware of this but the atomic bomb in japan was a mistake in communication (cultural not translation).
6. Please by all means be as snarky as possible, I take no offense. I am used to it by now. Besides I will not judge you, others well...

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 1, 2006 11:31 PM


1. I think you got it straight.

Don't you think that's a bit.....paranoid?


3. These borders count (haha) to you who have no where else to go.

Uh, this isn't the Soviet Union. We can leave anytime we want. Maximum Leader Bush can't confine us here.

4 Who says I was bashing US? My analysis does not Ever involve bashing US or the people living in it.

"Without knowing my true colors:) For all you know I might be that brown color, (tan) so many people admire and want in this country."

The reason, I am here is so that I can contribute to people like you. And maybe convince you that your attitudes are not helping.

Yeah, that's exactly what we need - to get lectured to by people with your helpful attitudes.

5. I don't know if you are aware of this but the atomic bomb in japan was a mistake in communication (cultural not translation).

Are you trying to say that dropping the bomb on Hiroshima/Nagasaki was wrong? You've just opened up a whole new can of worms. Oh dear.


Posted by: Daniel at March 4, 2006 12:20 PM


Daniel:
1. Not paronoid, just a theory, which may be false or true, only the future will tell.
3. Where can you go? I don't think that you can leave the US and become a citizen of another country without giving up your citizenship here. That is your option, but it does not allow you to retain all that you have worked for here. Check your Laws buddy, besides how many countries are inviting US citizens these days. Let me see, you might wanna go to Germany, an ally, or France, or Italy, lets not forget Poland. Perhaps you can get political asylum in Afghanistan.
4. That is neither bashing US or its citizens, just a social comment on all the people who buy tanning lotion.
5. I don't know about any can of worms, but since when did killing thousands of people unnecessarily, become the right thing to do? If the communication had taken place all those deaths and injuries could have been avoided.
6. Seriously Daniel, do you believe that the Use of the Atomic bomb to kill hundreds of thousands of people is a Good thing? Especially when it could have been avoided. If that is the case you are a unique American, cause most people that I talk to think that such abject disregard for human life, could only be found in some German or Soviet Leaders of the 30's.

Posted by: Azmat at March 4, 2006 09:58 PM


1) Yes, a theory. A theory born of paranoia, completely out of touch with reality. It appears that Islamists and the Left in general are afflicted with mass schizophrenia. You don't want to be lumped in with them now, do you?

3) Wrong-o, Az! Y'ever hear of "dual citizenship"? And what are you saying - if you leave the US the government will swoop in and seize all your earthly possessions? Once again, this isn't the Soviet Union. Maybe this happens in one of the many "cultures" you've lived in but it doesn't happen here. I think YOU'RE the one who needs to bone up on the laws here, especially with your impending citizenship.

Which countries are refusing US citizens? N.Korea maybe.

4) Yes, yes, of course.

5) & 6) Alright - I'm not going to get dragged into a whole different topic, so I'm going to make this brief.

The only thing that "communication" has to do with all this is that the US "communicated' to Japan what we were about to do and that it could have been avoided by their surrender. Japan chose to ignore us and paid the price.

Yes, many civilians were killed in the bombings. Why were the bombs dropped, you may ask?

The US was planning to invade Japan. It was estimated that a *minumum* of 500,000 US soldiers (it probably would have been much more ) were going to die taking the islands. Japan was training and arming its citizens - from young children to old people - to fight the US forces.

The Japanese mindset was to fight to the last man and not surrender. In order to take the islands we would have had to kill most of the population, losing hundreds of thousands of GI's in the process. The only thing that convinced them to surrender was the dropping of the A- bombs.

You might get off on lots of US casualties, whether it's 1945/46 Japan or 2006 Iraq. But given the choice between the deaths of GI's or Japanese civilians (who would have been combatants at some point anyway) most Americans would have - and still would - chosen the Japanese.

Then you say this -

"If that is the case you are a unique American, cause most people that I talk to think that such abject disregard for human life, could only be found in some German or Soviet Leaders of the 30's."

I don't know who you're talking to but you may want to get out once in a while and away from the Islamist/anti-American Left echo chamber you're in. And while you're at it, brush up on your US history. You're severely lacking in basic knowledge.

One other thing. It's not just German or Soviet leaders of the 30's but also present day Islamists. You seemed to have forgotten them, for some strange reason.

Posted by: Daniel at March 5, 2006 09:11 PM


Daniel, you have ONLY studied history in US right. No wonder, are you aware that history is taught differently all over the world, and what you read in your text books is not what other parts of the world read.
You are wrong about the Japanese response, it was a miscommunication. I don't have to convince you either, you have a right to be ill-informed it is a democracy.
I don't know any present day Islamists, neither have I ever heard of any of them, And I suggest niether have you. Do you know any Islamists? What does that term mean? Please explain.

3. Please try to gain the citizenship of another country and come back to US and see what happens. You are mistaken. The cases of dual citizenships are very complex, for example my daughter will have dual citizenship by birth and because of her parents. But in general the US is very strict about that. Perhaps the only country in the world that has complex laws to ensure that its citizens do not become citizens of another country at the same time. Some thing to do with that allegiance. No they will not swoop down and take your property, but if you live somewhere else and try to collect social security that will not work. You have to be a resident, ofcourse you can do stuff illegally and avoid the tax man, but if you read the fine print when you come back the IRS will say hey how come you are filing taxes as a resident when you live else where..
Know all about it cause it applies to me. Had to do research on the subject.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 6, 2006 04:51 PM


I have a link for you Daniel, but can't post it for some reason

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 6, 2006 06:03 PM


Daniel best I can do is cut and paste:

Section 349 of the INA [8 USC § 1481] specifies several conditions under which US citizenship may be lost. These include:

becoming a naturalized citizen of another country, or declaring allegiance to another country, after reaching age 18;

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 6, 2006 06:07 PM


Daniel, here is the link on cross cultural communication, or miscommunication I should say.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1971/mar-apr/Turner.html

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 6, 2006 10:00 PM


Dear sir -

How am I mistaken about dual citizenship? All I said was that it's available. You're correct - at times it can be rather complex. But so what? If it's such a terrible deal then go to another country and become a dual citizen there.

And what's this? -

No they will not swoop down and take your property, but if you live somewhere else and try to collect social security that will not work.

You're trying to say that you want to go live in another country but still have the American people pay you? Now, you might be saying "Yeah but, I paid into that. It's my money." You pay into it, sure, but what happens after what you paid in runs out? We (Americans) pick up the rest. And you're complaining that you can't get it in another country? That's a lot of gall, my friend. A lot of gall.

Your communication link was rather interesting. Understanding the enemy in either a hot or cold war has been going on for centuries. However, the Hiroshima stuff isn't the trump card you might think it is. Yo, check it -

Human history is marked by many serious instances of the failure of communication because of cultural differences. Sometimes even one word can weigh heavily in the balance. This appears to have happened when the Japanese were given an ultimatum to surrender prior to the use of the atomic bomb in 1945. The erroneous translation of the Japanese word mokusatsu so that it was understood to mean “to ignore” instead of “to withhold comment” led to a failure in communication at a time when negotiations were under way to end the war. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the entry of the Soviet Union into the war against Japan, and a train of serious consequences followed that might have been avoided had the message been understood as intended.12

"Erroneous translation"?. I looked it up here and here. Looks right to me. And you may want to take a bang of this. If there was any kind of misunderstanding it was Japan's fault, not ours.

Look. We did what we had to do to end the war and save American lives. They started it and we finished it.

I get the feeling that if Iran used a nuke on us or elsewhere (read:Israel) you wouldn't be so upset. Or if Pakistan dropped one on India and wiped out a bunch of Hindus. Would you be decrying "miscommunication" then?


Posted by: Daniel at March 7, 2006 06:28 PM


Yes Daniel, that would be very upsetting, I have frinds and relatives in both places.
Communication is a two way street, it is always easier to blame the other party.

Re: dual citizenship, I think you missed my point totally. No it is not available to you, in the sense that you can have both. You would have to surrender it if you take an oath of allegiance elsewhere.
Do some reading, It was not about saving american lives, it was about showing the world especially Russia that We had the Bomb. Japan was ready to surrender and that was already picked up by the intelligence. What can I say to you Daniel. Please continue to live where you are, the rest of the world is not ready for you yet.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 9, 2006 04:32 PM


By the way did you notice the Bait and Switch on the port deal. The dems are sure looking stupid Now. And I predicted it. This was just a Rove tactic and they fell for it. Bait and Switch works on the dems all the time. And the republicans all got to look good standing up to the president.
By the way this was needed cause the polls were sugesting that republicans keel over on every issue with this president. How ineffective the senate and congress had become, that was the public perception. But now that perception has changed. Also forgotten are all other important issues, like War in Iraq, Health Care, Spending, Cuts in education, and the list goes on like homeland security, and spying, Scooter and Abermoff.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at March 9, 2006 04:39 PM


US immigration law is a bit murky. At one time, yes, your US citizenship would get dropped if you applied elsewhere but that's not necessarily true now.

Some in Japan's ruling elite wanted surrender. Most others did not. Your total disregard for the lives of American servicemen (then and now) blinds you to the truth. Let me ask you this - Japan's westward march towards India (and what is now Pakistan) was stopped by British and American servicemen, primarily white and Christian. What do you think would have happened if Japan wasn't stopped? What do you think would have happened to you?

Uh, OK, I'll stay where I'm at. I was thinking of going to Pakistan to live. After all, there's just so much tolerance, freedom and opportunity there but if you say so I'll just stay here instead.

The Democrats, in their zeal to sink the U.S.S. Bush, usually end up looking like the fanatics they really are. However, that doesn't translate into guaranteed GOP victory. And the Rove angle is just tin foil hat-time. If you believe that you'll believe just about anything.

Communication is truly a two-way street. You implore others to read books and listen etc, etc but you don't seem to take your own advice. You should walk down the other sidewalk sometime.

Well, I think our little convo has run it's course. I've thoroughly enjoyed it despite the fact that we'll never agree. I wish I could answer you in a more timely manner but I've been really jammed up lately with only limited computer time. That makes it rather unfair to you.

Being the true Gentleman of The West that I am, I ask you to please have the last word. Any final points, facts, figures, insults, jeremiads, anything you wish. Let it fly.

I'm sure we'll meet again on Miss Joy's wonderful blog and continue the back and forth, the ebb and flow, et al. Until then.

Yours for liberty,
Daniel


Posted by: Daniel at March 12, 2006 09:58 PM




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