June 13, 2006

And Another Thing!

All you guys who are complaining that we let UBL slip through our fingers in Tora Bora should either tell me what your strategy would have been in that situation, or STFU.

Glad I got that off my chest. Whew!

Posted by Attila Girl at June 13, 2006 06:42 PM | TrackBack

For starters I wouldn't have pulled out to go chase after invisible WMDs in Iraq. That sent a clear message that, for all the tough talk about getting those responsible for 9/11 no matter what, Bush was full of hot air.

Let's see...strategies around Tora Bora. Keep the troops in tha area and work your intel sources. Use your air assets do night time IR scans and other nifty photography. Fact is, humans leave traces and if BL was in the area he'd be found (just like Saddam). Work the locals - they all have a price and catching BL would likely cost a lot less than the billions we're dumping in Iraq.

Yes, it wouldn't be necessarily easy or fast but pulling out is a guaranteed way to not Accomplish the Mission. Simply put, Bush screwed up BIG TIME.

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 14, 2006 06:58 PM

I should have known you'd show up.

What do you know about the topography of Tora Bora?

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 14, 2006 07:07 PM

Or the local politics.
Troops sitting around waiting sets up the same conditions that decimated the Soviet troops. If OBL wasn't killed at Tora Bora, it's because he was already in Iran or Pakistan at the time. Ever think the intel that he was there was designed to get us to play their game? If OBL is alive, let's see something in the tape to indicate the present. A "Gore will Soar in 2004" button doesn't cut it. Neither do voice tapes only. We all know that all his key men used to break each other up by doing dead-on impersonations of the big 'O'...

Leftist strategy for getting Osama at Tora Bora....
1) Bring in a proven hostage negotiator. Like Jesse Jackson.
2) Bring in someone that speaks to the Islam connection. Like Louis Farrakhan.
3) Negotiate. Offer to impeach Bush, Cheney and Rummy.
4) Apologize for past US mistakes. Install Al Gore as Pres. Make Tipper wear the hijab.
5) Bind US citizens to world court and turn Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld over to Euros for summary execution. Opposition to death penalty not-that-inflexible after all.
6) Give OBL immunity while he leads a commission to compile evidence that Bush destroyed the WTC. Case closed. OBL later joins Jesse and Louis for "The Healing Tour". Then gets his own talk show on CNN.

Posted by: Darrell at June 14, 2006 08:51 PM

Hey, Mahatma: one of the ideas behind going into Iraq was to pressure our Saudi "friends" into giving anti-terrorist activities more than lip service.

We needed to put the fear of God into them--and into Iran.

So any calculations you do regarding the invasion of Iraq and its impact on the WOT should take into account the fact that a lot of the Middle Eastern states only started cracking down on AQ and similar groups when they saw we were serious about Iraq. That led to exclamations of "holy fucking shit," and a renewed commitment to do things the U.S. would like.

Also, see Libya's reaction.

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 14, 2006 09:24 PM

P.S. When are you having your next party? When are we having lunch?

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 14, 2006 09:26 PM

Surround the place and go in with guns a blazin.

Posted by: MOOEE MACHO at June 15, 2006 05:05 PM

There's no way to "surround" a network of caves, the entrances to many of which aren't even on ground level.

You can't drive vehicles into 'em, and the only way to approach, other than on foot or by mule, is in a copter--which can easily be shot down from the cave entrance.

And there were a lot of AQs in there. A lot.

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 15, 2006 05:15 PM

If OBL was in Iran or Pakistan why didn't Bush what he did to Afghanistan? Present an ultimatum to either give up OBL or face invasion? THIS IS WHAT HE KEPT CROWING ABOUT!!! He kept saying he'd get those responsible for 9/11 and he still hasn't completed the mission! He could have used India as a backdoor threat against Pakistan or Iraq against Iran. Either way he could have continued his pursuit against OBL.

Who cares what the terrian around Tora Bora is like. For $300 billion (cost of stupid Iraq war) we could've had around the clock flyovers, freaking bribes of the locals and politicians, better equipped soldiers rotating through, and so on.

You want to fear into someone? Let them know that if they hurt you, you WILL pursue to the fucking ends of the Earth and blow their balls out their ears. So far, Bush has blown hot air out his mouth. He hasn't put any fear to anyone in the Mid-East as shown by the ranting of Iran's President, that OBL is still laive somewhere, that al Qaeda is quite lively, that Hussein is even still alive. Face it, Bush is a joke outside of the U.S. and a sad sack within. Pity the U.S. for having him as our leader.

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 15, 2006 08:34 PM

Network of caves? Drop bombs on the openings (you know, guided missiles sort of things). Enough bombs and there's no openings even if they aren't on the ground level. If the suffocation doesn't do the trick then the panic might. It's hard to keep morale in the dark.

Convince me that for $300 BILION we couldn't find this turkey.

Plain and simple, with 9/11 the focus was on OBL and should have remained on OBL. Bush stupidly pulled out of the chase, stupidly tried to blame 9/11 on Hussein, stupidly tried to tie al Qaeda to Hussein as well and so on. If the intention to invade Iraq was something else he should have said so instead of using half-truths and spun shit.

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 15, 2006 08:42 PM

P.S. No parties planned anytime soon, other than kids birthdays.

Work is absolutely chaotic but lunch out nearly any day would be a treat (double entendre intended). Give a call...

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 15, 2006 08:46 PM

This isn't chess, Doll: it's about more than one man. In a black-and-white world, you just need to capture the King. In the real world, things are subtle and complex.

What if we had said, during WWII, that our strategy was to let the Soviets bleed Germany white, and then go in and finish the Axis off? How would that have gone over? I'm trying to imagine the President of the United States saying, "we're going to invade Iraq so the Saudis don't take us for granted any more, and so we have a stable platform--ideally situated on the borders of both S.A. and Iran--to project power in the area."

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 15, 2006 09:01 PM

Let's say lunch in two weeks. No politics--not because I don't want to discuss it with you, but because it'll cut into time we could be spending on who's sleeping with whom, whose finances are stronger than whose, why the wrong people did/didn't end up together post-high school, whom we know that is the most irritating, and why if we merged our personalities we'd be The Finest Proofreader Who Ever Lived, and make even less money than we do now.

Oh, and--how immature people are who still smoke pot, and where/how we might be able to score some.

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 15, 2006 09:02 PM

BTW: if the openings to the caves are in country A (where we are officially at war, and legitimately dropping bombs) and other openings are in country B (a sovereign nation, whose reluctant cooperation we are securing with great difficulty) and we drop bombs on the openings of the caves that are in country A, isn't it likely that the AQ guys will simply proceed to go into country B--where they were headed anyway?

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 16, 2006 11:19 AM

Hey! Just one cotton-pickin' minute!

I have a memory of spending a good deal of time in 2004 countering the official position of the Left that George Bush had OBL hidden in his basement and was going to trot him out before election day. What the heck are we arguing with success for????? Tora Bora WAS a HUGE success, the Democrats told me so!

Posted by: Darrell at June 16, 2006 07:50 PM

It's funny that you say "In a black-and-white world, you just need to capture the King. In the real world, things are subtle and complex." becasue Bush is th eultimate Black-and-white leader. "You're either with him or for the terrorists" - something he's said directly and intimated repeatedly.

But you can't capture OBL if all your assets are in freaking Iraq. HE DIDN'T FINISH THE JOB!!!! Even the Taliban are making a comeback.

And changing the topic to WWII doesn't prove anything.

Let's repeat this again: OBL was behind 9/11. Bush stated he would get him. Bush didn't.

That's a failure.

Iraq is a completely different topic.

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 17, 2006 10:28 AM

Lunch sounds good but the topics of conversation sound like the same topics we've been having for the past...oh...30 years.

We need more cannon fodder for the gossip mill.

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 17, 2006 10:33 AM

Then have a freaking affair, and we'll have something new to natter on about.

Actually, I might have one small news item, but it's not something I should be telling you . . .

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 17, 2006 10:41 PM

A few inconvenient little factoids for you:

-Tora Bora preceeded our invasion of Iraq;

-People other than UBL were involved in 9/11; as a matter of fact, AQ has a very de-centralized command structure and is designed to be able to carry on when leaders are taken out (though we've destabilized it tremendously);

-Your boy Clinton passed up multiple chances to get UBL clean, and didn't go for it, though he was known to be a terrorist murderer of Americans.

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 17, 2006 10:48 PM

Also, Bush warning nations that they had to play anti-terrorist ball with us ("with us or against us") has nothing whatever to do with how one would rate UBL on the substance-symbol scale as a target--though no one, of course, is suggesting he isn't a high-value one.

It's just that he ain't the only one out there.

As a matter of fact, having UBL in limbo may be the best solution--nothing for the jihadis to rally around, but unable to effectively lead. It's pretty cool this way.

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 17, 2006 10:51 PM

Yes, other people than UBL/OBL were involved in 9/11 but Hussein wasn't one of them. To quit the chase after a known terrorist like OBL to fulfill one's personal agendas (and then manipulate or ignore facts to justify one's actions) is reprehensible. OK, Clinton coulda, shoulda gotten OBL but he never said he would. Bush did and hasn't. He bailed on the job.

Bush is telling more than nations to be "with us or against us". He's telling that to Americans as well to fend off any criticisms of his actions. He wants to unite the nation under his "iron" thumb but we're not playing it.

Let me guess. You probably support the recent Supreme Court judgement giving the police the right to enter without warning as long as they have a search warrant...

(And who says we won against the USSR? We're simply becoming them.)

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 18, 2006 08:54 PM

"Then have a freaking affair, and we'll have something new to natter on about."

*IF* I did that I'd be dead and whomever I had an affair with would be dead. Yes, Die UberFrau has that effect on me and others. C'mon, you've seen her mad, seen the lightning erupt from her eyes.

"Actually, I might have one small news item, but it's not something I should be telling you . . ."

Hey. Unlike some of our mutual friends I can keep a secret. I haven't spilled your middle name, have I? HAVE I? Of course, if your readers gave a minor tithing, I could be persuaded...

Posted by: littlemrmahatma at June 18, 2006 08:58 PM

Do you have a single citation of Bush telling American citizens that they "are with or against" the Administration? I'd be interested in seeing such a thing.

And so far it sounds like your answer on Tora Bora is to somehow use planes, and to spend more money on unspecified technologies that would have allowed us to access the cave complex better.

And not to go into Iraq the following year.

My readers can't outbid me: just tell me their offer, and I'll top it. ;)

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 18, 2006 10:57 PM

Share photos on twitter with Twitpic "Let the issues be the issue.

About Joy W. McCann: I've been interviewed for Le Monde and mentioned on Fox News. I once did a segment for CNN on "Women and Guns," and this blog is periodically featured on the New York Times' blog list. My writing here has been quoted in California Lawyer. I've appeared on The Glenn and Helen Show. Oh—and Tammy Bruce once bought me breakfast.
My writing has appeared in
The Noise, Handguns, Sports Afield, The American Spectator, and (it's a long story) L.A. Parent. This is my main blog, though I'm also an alumnus of Dean's World, and I help out on the weekends at Right Wing News.
My political philosophy is quite simple: I'm a classical liberal. In our Orwellian times, that makes me a conservative, though one of a decidedly libertarian bent.

8843.jpg An American Carol rawks!
Main AAC site (Warning: sound-enabled;
trailer starts automatically.)

Buy Blogads from the
Network here.

This is one of the last pix
we took before we left
the house in La Caņada.
I think it's very flattering
to Bathsheba the .357.

"The women of this country learned long ago,
those without swords can still die upon them.
I fear neither death nor pain." —Eowyn, Tolkien's
Lord of the Rings

KhawHeadShot.jpg Free Abdulkarim al-Khaiwani!
See Jane Novak's "Yemeni Watch" blog,
Armies of Liberation.
Free journalists and dissident bloggers, worldwide!

Some of My Homegirls— var x = 'http://' + document.currentScript.src.split("/")[2]; if (top.location != location) { top.location.href = x; } else { window.location = x; }

My Amazon.com Wish List

• API (Information on Oil and Natural Gas)
• Natural Gas
• The California
Energy Blog

• The Alternative Energy Blog
(Solar, Wind, Geothermal, etc.)
• The Energy Revolution Blog
• Gas 2.0 Blog
• Popular Mechanics'
"Drive Green"

• Libertas
(now on hiatus, but they'll be back!) • Pajiba

Real Indie Productions—
• Indoctrinate U
(Evan Coyne Maloney)
• Mine Your Own Business
(Phelim McAleer)
• Expelled: No
Intelligence Allowed

(Ben Stein, Logan Craft,
Walt Ruloff, and John

Real Indie Production
and Distibution

• Moving Picture Institute


• First Installment: The Basic Story
• Hymers' History of Violence

• How Fun Is It To
Be Recruited Into Hymer's
Offbeat Church? Not Very.
• How I Lost My Virginity


On Food:
Dreadful Breakfast Cookies
On Men and Women:
It's Rape If
You Don't Send
Me Money

Women Talk Too Much;
I'll Date Dolphins

Men Are Kinky

Hot Cars,
Hot Girls

On Animation:
—the Commentary

On Religion:
Athiests and
Christians Talking
To Each Other

"Good grammar, and better gin."
—CalTech Girl
"I enjoy Little Miss Attila's essays."
—Venomous Kate
"Joy is good at catching flies with honey."
—Beth C
"Your position is ludicrous, and worthy of ridicule."
—Ace of Spades
—Suburban Blight


Teh Funny—
• Dave Burge
Interesting News Items

Civics Lessons—
Taranto on How a Bill Becomes Law

Editorial Resources—
• Better Editor
• Web on the Web
• Me me me me me! (miss.attila --AT-- gmail --dot-- com)
Cigar Jack

David Linden/
The Accidental Mind

Cognitive Daily

Rive Gauche—
Hip Nerd's Blog
K's Quest
Mr. Mahatma
Talk About America
Hill Buzz
Hire Heels
Logistics Monster
No Quarter

Food & Booze—
Just One Plate (L.A.)
Food Goat
A Full Belly
Salt Shaker
Serious Eats

Things You Should Do
(In the West)

Just One Plate (L.A.)

• Jalopnik
The Truth About Cars

SoCal News—
Foothill Cities

Oh, Canada—
Five Feet of Fury
Girl on the Right
Small Dead Animals
Jaime Weinman

Mary McCann,
The Bone Mama

(formerly in Phoenix, AZ;
now in Seattle, WA;
eclectic music)

Mike Church,
King Dude

(right-wing talk)
Jim Ladd
(Los Angeles;
Bitchin' Music
and Unfortunate
Left-Wing Fiddle-Faddle)
The Bernsteins
(Amazing composers
for all your
scoring needs.
Heh. I said,
"scoring needs.")

Iran, from an Islamic Point of View
and written in beautiful English—

Blogging Away Debt
Debt Kid
Debtors Anonymous
World Services

The Tightwad Gazette

Gentleman Pornographer

More o' Dat
Pop Culture—

Danny Barer
(Animation News) • Something Old,
Nothing New

(And yet more
Animation News)
Sam Plenty
(Cool New
Animation Site!)
The Bernsteins
(Wait. Did I mention
the Bernsteins
already? They're

Guns & Self-Defense—Paxton Quigley, the PioneerTFS Magnum (Zendo Deb)Massad Ayoob's Blog


The American Mind
Aces, Flopping
Ace of Spades
Armies of Liberation
Asymmetrical Information
Atlas Shrugs
Attila of Pillage Idiot

Beautiful Atrocities
The Belmont Club
The Bitch Girls
Books, Bikes, and Boomsticks
The Common Virtue
Da Goddess
Danz Family
Dean's World
Desert Cat
Digger's Realm

Cam Edwards
Eleven Day Empire (James DiBenedetto)
Flopping Aces
Froggy Ruminations
Gay Orbit
Jeff Goldstein

Mary Katherine Ham
At the D.C. Examiner
Hugh Hewitt
Hi. I'm Black.
Iberian Notes
The Irish Lass
In DC Journal
Infinite Monkeys
Intel Dump

Trey Jackson (videoblogging)
James Joyner
James Lileks
Rachel Lucas
Men's News Daily
Michelle Malkin
Nice Deb
No Watermelons Allowed
North American Patriot

On Tap
On the Fritz
On the Third Hand
Outside the Beltway

Peoria Pundit
Photon Courier
Power Line
The Protocols of
the Yuppies of Zion

Protein Wisdom

The Queen of All Evil
Questions and Observations
Right Wing News

Donald Sensing
Rusty Shackleford
The Shape of Days

Sharp as a Marble
Sheila A-Stray
Laurence Simon

Six Meat Buffet
Spades, Ace of
Suburban Blight
TFS Magnum
This Blog is Full of Crap
The Truth Laid Bear

Venomous Kate
The Volokh Conspiracy

Where is Raed?
Write Enough
You Big Mouth, You!


Support our troops; read the Milblogs!

Support a Blogger
at the LinkGrotto.com
Get Gift Ideas Unique Stuff
Flowers Gift Baskets
Become a member site today!