April 10, 2008

I Don't Suppose We Could Save the Girls . . .

without also assuring the women that they were also, in fact, the victims in this "victimless crime."

Posted by Attila Girl at April 10, 2008 12:01 AM | TrackBack

Polygamy in science fiction or in the mind of the crazy guy I met this weekend (flying cars! robot slaves! gay/straight/bi polygamy for everyone!) is sold as a feminist, respectful, harmonious arrangement among equals. Maybe some day it can be.

Even on Big Love, the three wives look pretty happy... and I've read articles by polygamous wives that claim it works for them. But these are urban, educated women with solid identities of their own.

What goes on in these compounds with semi-educated, sheltered, manipulated girls who've been provided with no options or alternative world views breaks my heart.

Posted by: Rin at April 10, 2008 09:56 AM

Exactly. Just as there is a difference between prostitution in developed countries versus prostitution in, say, Southeast Asia /other developing regions / slave operations in this country (just as the locked compounds wherein immigrants are held against their will and separated by society--for garment work, etc.).

But what we cannot do is try to solve either problem by infantalizing grown women. Even if we feel that an adult woman has been infantalized/enslaved by her culture (which could be the offshoot sects from fundamentalist Mormonism, or certain strains of Islamism, with the woman-as-property mindset and a culture that encourages "honor kilings" of rape victims, or of young ladies who were seen in the presence of a non-related male).

The law cannot make these distinctions; all we can do is rescue the minors who live in compounds on which THE LAW IS BEING ACTIVELY BROKEN. Children, we have a right and a responsibility to protect. Women HAVE to be on their own, or we will have philosophically thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

There are no battered women's shelters in some Muslim-dominated countries, but they are swamped, in England, with women escaping abusive Islamic households.

As you know, I was in an open "marriage," and I would have been fit to tied if the State had infantalized me by attempting a "rescue."

But we can do a lot without going all "nanny state": for instance, all of the areas in the Southwest that host a lot of these quasi-Mormon sects (Arizona and New Mexico, especially--as well as Texas and Oklahoma) should have lots of battered women's shelters, and public advertising campaigns that explain that abuse does not have to be physical--it can also be verbal and psychological.

And, yes: I do believe we must legalize polygamy / polyandrous arrangements among consenting adults, precisely BECAUSE that will help society to weed out the abuse of underage girls that goes on now, while all of these sects are forced to live further underground than would otherwise be the case.

We cannot regulate something that we have forbidden to begin with.

Posted by: Attila Girl at April 10, 2008 02:50 PM

Odd, that some feminist positions have an apparent side effect of infantilizing women. Some pro-choice arguments, for example, take the tone that women should be free to get out from under any mistakes or undesirable circumstances in which they find themselves. Now, I'm pro-choice (reluctantly, and more pro-birth control than anything else), but I don't want to argue that women, the poor little dears, shouldn't or can't be expected to live responsibly and cautiously, just like grownups. You know, men.

I have mixed feelings about first-world prostitution, the (more or less?) "chosen" prostitution of intelligent women (like those on Cat House, the Showtime show, where they seem to have options and to feel fine with their choices). I don't want to make decisions for other women, but I wish they made other decisions for themselves... and I'd like to be surer that they know there are other decisions to be made.

As for polygamy and open marriage, I am ok with the idea on paper, but I've seen it fail more often than I've seen it succeed, and I know for sure it's not for me! Still, if it's truly chosen, and safe, and respectful, among adults in possession of the facts, condoms, and options, I don't want to be the one to forbid it.

In oldentimes Philadelphia (where my father was raised) the name for a brothel was a "disorderly house" and the name for a slut was "a girl who danced with gentlemen to whom she had not been properly introduced."

Sometimes, in order to fight oppression, you gotta call a spade a spade.

I, of course, am glad to say that I have never seen a spade.

Posted by: Rin at April 11, 2008 12:42 PM

I had some direct dealings with these people a few years ago. They had a construction company based out of Colorado City, AZ that won a couple of contracts with my employer.

It was a peculiar and creepy thing to see some of the very young "women" (girls actually) that sometimes came around to the job site occasionally where their "husbands" were working.

Posted by: Desert Cat at April 11, 2008 08:55 PM

Eeek. This is a legitimate use of state and Federal dollars: find out where it's happening. If it's all among consenting adults, the DAs should "lose track of the paperwork," and "forget to prosecute." If involves the underaged, throw the book at 'em.

But do not cofuse the two.

Posted by: Attila Girl at April 11, 2008 09:47 PM

Wow, cool man, big thanks! http://tbqynpozrx.com

Posted by: pmaobfxcft at April 24, 2008 01:06 PM

Share photos on twitter with Twitpic "Let the issues be the issue.

About Joy W. McCann: I've been interviewed for Le Monde and mentioned on Fox News. I once did a segment for CNN on "Women and Guns," and this blog is periodically featured on the New York Times' blog list. My writing here has been quoted in California Lawyer. I've appeared on The Glenn and Helen Show. Oh—and Tammy Bruce once bought me breakfast.
My writing has appeared in
The Noise, Handguns, Sports Afield, The American Spectator, and (it's a long story) L.A. Parent. This is my main blog, though I'm also an alumnus of Dean's World, and I help out on the weekends at Right Wing News.
My political philosophy is quite simple: I'm a classical liberal. In our Orwellian times, that makes me a conservative, though one of a decidedly libertarian bent.

8843.jpg An American Carol rawks!
Main AAC site (Warning: sound-enabled;
trailer starts automatically.)

Buy Blogads from the
Network here.

This is one of the last pix
we took before we left
the house in La Caņada.
I think it's very flattering
to Bathsheba the .357.

"The women of this country learned long ago,
those without swords can still die upon them.
I fear neither death nor pain." —Eowyn, Tolkien's
Lord of the Rings

KhawHeadShot.jpg Free Abdulkarim al-Khaiwani!
See Jane Novak's "Yemeni Watch" blog,
Armies of Liberation.
Free journalists and dissident bloggers, worldwide!

Some of My Homegirls— var x = 'http://' + document.currentScript.src.split("/")[2]; if (top.location != location) { top.location.href = x; } else { window.location = x; }

My Amazon.com Wish List

• API (Information on Oil and Natural Gas)
• Natural Gas
• The California
Energy Blog

• The Alternative Energy Blog
(Solar, Wind, Geothermal, etc.)
• The Energy Revolution Blog
• Gas 2.0 Blog
• Popular Mechanics'
"Drive Green"

• Libertas
(now on hiatus, but they'll be back!) • Pajiba

Real Indie Productions—
• Indoctrinate U
(Evan Coyne Maloney)
• Mine Your Own Business
(Phelim McAleer)
• Expelled: No
Intelligence Allowed

(Ben Stein, Logan Craft,
Walt Ruloff, and John

Real Indie Production
and Distibution

• Moving Picture Institute


• First Installment: The Basic Story
• Hymers' History of Violence

• How Fun Is It To
Be Recruited Into Hymer's
Offbeat Church? Not Very.
• How I Lost My Virginity


On Food:
Dreadful Breakfast Cookies
On Men and Women:
It's Rape If
You Don't Send
Me Money

Women Talk Too Much;
I'll Date Dolphins

Men Are Kinky

Hot Cars,
Hot Girls

On Animation:
—the Commentary

On Religion:
Athiests and
Christians Talking
To Each Other

"Good grammar, and better gin."
—CalTech Girl
"I enjoy Little Miss Attila's essays."
—Venomous Kate
"Joy is good at catching flies with honey."
—Beth C
"Your position is ludicrous, and worthy of ridicule."
—Ace of Spades
—Suburban Blight


Teh Funny—
• Dave Burge
Interesting News Items

Civics Lessons—
Taranto on How a Bill Becomes Law

Editorial Resources—
• Better Editor
• Web on the Web
• Me me me me me! (miss.attila --AT-- gmail --dot-- com)
Cigar Jack

David Linden/
The Accidental Mind

Cognitive Daily

Rive Gauche—
Hip Nerd's Blog
K's Quest
Mr. Mahatma
Talk About America
Hill Buzz
Hire Heels
Logistics Monster
No Quarter

Food & Booze—
Just One Plate (L.A.)
Food Goat
A Full Belly
Salt Shaker
Serious Eats

Things You Should Do
(In the West)

Just One Plate (L.A.)

• Jalopnik
The Truth About Cars

SoCal News—
Foothill Cities

Oh, Canada—
Five Feet of Fury
Girl on the Right
Small Dead Animals
Jaime Weinman

Mary McCann,
The Bone Mama

(formerly in Phoenix, AZ;
now in Seattle, WA;
eclectic music)

Mike Church,
King Dude

(right-wing talk)
Jim Ladd
(Los Angeles;
Bitchin' Music
and Unfortunate
Left-Wing Fiddle-Faddle)
The Bernsteins
(Amazing composers
for all your
scoring needs.
Heh. I said,
"scoring needs.")

Iran, from an Islamic Point of View
and written in beautiful English—

Blogging Away Debt
Debt Kid
Debtors Anonymous
World Services

The Tightwad Gazette

Gentleman Pornographer

More o' Dat
Pop Culture—

Danny Barer
(Animation News) • Something Old,
Nothing New

(And yet more
Animation News)
Sam Plenty
(Cool New
Animation Site!)
The Bernsteins
(Wait. Did I mention
the Bernsteins
already? They're

Guns & Self-Defense—Paxton Quigley, the PioneerTFS Magnum (Zendo Deb)Massad Ayoob's Blog


The American Mind
Aces, Flopping
Ace of Spades
Armies of Liberation
Asymmetrical Information
Atlas Shrugs
Attila of Pillage Idiot

Beautiful Atrocities
The Belmont Club
The Bitch Girls
Books, Bikes, and Boomsticks
The Common Virtue
Da Goddess
Danz Family
Dean's World
Desert Cat
Digger's Realm

Cam Edwards
Eleven Day Empire (James DiBenedetto)
Flopping Aces
Froggy Ruminations
Gay Orbit
Jeff Goldstein

Mary Katherine Ham
At the D.C. Examiner
Hugh Hewitt
Hi. I'm Black.
Iberian Notes
The Irish Lass
In DC Journal
Infinite Monkeys
Intel Dump

Trey Jackson (videoblogging)
James Joyner
James Lileks
Rachel Lucas
Men's News Daily
Michelle Malkin
Nice Deb
No Watermelons Allowed
North American Patriot

On Tap
On the Fritz
On the Third Hand
Outside the Beltway

Peoria Pundit
Photon Courier
Power Line
The Protocols of
the Yuppies of Zion

Protein Wisdom

The Queen of All Evil
Questions and Observations
Right Wing News

Donald Sensing
Rusty Shackleford
The Shape of Days

Sharp as a Marble
Sheila A-Stray
Laurence Simon

Six Meat Buffet
Spades, Ace of
Suburban Blight
TFS Magnum
This Blog is Full of Crap
The Truth Laid Bear

Venomous Kate
The Volokh Conspiracy

Where is Raed?
Write Enough
You Big Mouth, You!


Support our troops; read the Milblogs!

Support a Blogger
at the LinkGrotto.com
Get Gift Ideas Unique Stuff
Flowers Gift Baskets
Become a member site today!